National Interest

Last week The National Interest spoke to British environmental thinker Professor Tim Jackson about the ideas in his book 'Prosperity Without Growth?: Economics for a finite planet', a long interview which prompted a huge response.

Many listeners called or wrote to say how pleased they were to hear the mantra of growth questioned.

Doris called from Loxton in the South Australian Riverland. "I have at last heard someone say what I have been thinking for a long time. Economic growth is just a term for using up our finite resources as fast as possible. Our descendents won't thank us if all we leave for them is a waterless land and empty quarries."

Peter was similarly impressed, arguing that the much-used term 'sustainable growth' is an oxymoron.

"If growth is sustained in a static system like the earth then eventually that which grows interminably will consume everything else. At the moment resource consumption by the human species is growing interminably. If the species continues to grow, or its rate of per capita consumption continues to grow, it will bring all asunder. We find it hard to imagine, because the feedback loops are so slow relative to the length of our lives, the electoral cycle, the 24 hour media circus, and our personal concentration spans. But regardless of desires, politics and social mores, eventually physics wins."

Italo thought Tim Jackson identified a nut that will be very hard to crack.

"It seems that liberal democracies face a 'cruel choice': maximise the good life and benefit the current population, so causing possible harm to a future generation. Or, adopt polices for a future generation that adversely affect the current electorate who subscribe to a version of global consumerism."

Mercia responded in a similar vein - she praised Tim Jackson's balanced view of the difficulty governments face in trying to protect the environment in an economic system based on growth.

"For the first time, I understood the bind governments are in, the double act they are unable to pull off. I thought it was just some kind of power perversity, dazzled by big money power. But the dilemma is real. I also love the way Tim Jackson affirmed the tension between competing impulses inherent in our human nature, something I am sure most of us feel acutely - the social pressure to act selfishly and lust after new gadgets when what we really crave is more opportunities to share and care."

Some listeners, like Chris from Canberra, thought Tim Jackson downplayed the role of population in the growth dilemma.

"Professor Jackson, an Englishman, wasn't obviously up to speed on the Australian situation and therefore he didn't give due emphasis on the very big drawdown of ecological assets by the population increase, let alone our affluence."

Claire from Edithvale in Melbourne also had a comment about population. She took exception to the point made by Tim Jackson that the best way to slow population growth in the developing world is to educate women and girls.

"Well I think they've got it all wrong. It's the men who should be educated and tell them to look after the women. All these women don't want this load of babies that they have and its the mean who should respect the women and that should go right through all the churches and everywhere."

Myrna on the other hand welcomed Tim Jackson's 'superbly nuanced' views on population growth and wholeheartedly agreed with almost everything he said - almost.

"I was dismayed, however by Prof Jackson's claims about the 'remarkable results' in health and well-being achieved by Latin American economies as compared to the West. With a few exceptions, notably Costa Rica, Cuba and perhaps Chile, his claim flies in the face of the comparative statistics on life expectancy, infant mortality and other indicators. I wish you had asked him to be more specific. Brazil is the largest country in that region and one of the most unequal societies in the world. It has shocking poverty and health statistics, and is far from unique in Latin America. I agree with Prof. Jackson that social structure is important, but the most unequal societies produce the worst profiles for human well-being."

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Presenter

Peter Mares

Producer

Erica Vowles